That distinction results in an ironic turning of the tables. : Okay, I see your point. Don’t you agree that this is what Paul is saying? What are some of the ways in which the Bible and the Roman Catholic Church differ? Prayer Warrior Radio Club Member Join Date: April 18, 2007. We should hold on to all that the apostles taught, whether it came in writing or in verbal form. In a book called The Liberty of a Christian Man he issued his proclamation that men are justified by faith alone and that every Christian is his own priest, having direct access to God and needing neither a … Thus, today, all we need is Scripture. I don’t think any conscientious Christian would want to say that we don’t need the New Testament to have the kinds of teaching and reproof that Paul says in verse 16. The Bereans, we’re told, were mainly Jews (and some Greeks), not Christians, and they even had a Jewish synagogue. to search the largest database of Catholic answers. It has the imprimatur of Cardinal George Basil Hume. 1:13; 4:3; Titus 1:9, 13; 2:1, 2). We Catholics admit that the Bible is the Word of God, the language of inspiration, and every Catholic is exhorted to read the Bible. The word they received was Paul’s teaching about Jesus—that same teaching which he sums up in his first letter to the Corinthians, “For I delivered to you as of first importance what I also received, that Christ died for our sins in accordance with the scriptures” (1 Cor. and N.T. Isn’t this what Paul is speaking about? : Your logic is sound, but the word translated in verse 17 as “complete” is, , a word that can also be translated as “prepared.” Now, you will concede that there is a difference between being prepared and being complete. See this page in: French, Portuguese, Spanish. Such a step is not too far of a stretch. This is exactly the same thing that Paul urges in 2 Thessalonians 2:15, “So, then, brethren, stand firm and hold to the traditions which you were taught by us, either by word of mouth or by letter.”. Being OF God - i.e., God’s very WORD, Sacred/Holy Scriptures nonetheless form a Foundational part of what the Church IS… Nevertheless, the position of the Church is that Scripture is materially sufficient, but not formally sufficient, for knowledge of the revelation of God. On Thursday December 31 at 5pm PT, Catholic Answers will close the Catholic Answers Forums (CAF). But before doing so, let me also clarify something about the nature of Tradition. Paul exhorts them to hold on to his verbal teachings. 1 Tim. But good as it is, the Bible, my dear friends, does not explain itself. Hello all, I have been thinking a lot lately about switching to using the Douay-Rheims Bible alone. A good Catholic could choose not to use these traditions his whole life and still be a good Catholic (although one could not be a good Catholic without praying in some form). BIBLE ALONE CHRISTIANS, with Scripture Alone can you disprove Catholics giving the Virgin Mary Honor? It is God’s word handed down in verbal form from generation to generation. of Tradition certainly does. Inevitably, we must point to specific verses, but they must be understood in the context of the whole. Some of this was then put into what we call the Bible today. It includes things like the Immaculate Conception of Mary and the infallibility of the pope. It has resulted in the unification of protestants in their stance that all things Catholic … Footnotes. It has resulted in the unification of protestants in their stance that all things Catholic are evil, including the Pope, good works, statues, Mary, authority, etc. But if we read his words as implying that Scripture is sufficient with no need of Tradition, then he would be saying that the Old Testament is sufficient. : I don’t think that passage says exactly what you want it to say. Faith Alone. Log … The Latin sola scriptura is “solely scripture” or more simply put, Bible alone. Irrefutable questions that Roman Catholics and Orthodox can't answer "Roman Catholic Examined" Home Page "Orthodox Church Examined" Home Page Return to "Canon of the Bible" Home Page. Sometimes, the emphasis seems to fall on the activity of teaching, and at others on the content of what is taught. There are certain Christians out there who believe in the Bible alone. OBJECTOR: Well, I don’t see Paul pointing Timothy and Titus to any verbal transmission. This is exactly the same thing that Paul urges in 2 Thessalonians 2:15, “So, then, brethren, stand firm and hold to the traditions which you were taught by us, either by word of mouth or by letter.”. You are justified by Faith Alone. Holy. Apostolic. Let's read James 2:24: “See how a person is justified by works and not by faith alone.” Protestants say NO! Thank you all for your support over the years and God bless. : Your distinction between the content of the gospel and the process by which it came down to us is curious. So when Paul speaks of Scripture in this verse, he is certainly referring to the Old Testament and not the entire Bible as we now have it. “All scripture is given by by inspiration of God and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness; THAT THE MAN OF GOD MAY BE PERFECT, THOROUGHLY FURNISHED UNTO ALL GOOD WORKS.” 2 Timothy 3:16-17 You are justified by Faith Alone. The Bible doesn’t say he was—but it doesn’t say he wasn’t. The Bible is the book of the Church, collected, treasured and defended by the undivided church for over 1000 years. Southern belles are great! These Christians are Christians that believe in the Trinity and they believe in the Bible alone. The Bible says you are NOT saved by faith alone. The next one, "Grace Alone", isn't found in the Bible either. Catholics … Please only use Scripture. Dec 16th 2020 Catholic Answers. And God’s word gives very stern warnings to those who would add their own traditions to the gospel. Now after all these things, do Protestants truly believe in the Bible alone? Introduction. The Bible does not say “Do not use tradition” or “Scripture alone is sufficient.” But the Bible does not say “The Trinity is three persons in one God” either, yet it is a fundamental doctrine of … Anyway, ask for the actual definition from Luther, from any Lutheran, where Luther actually defined what is meant by Bible alone… So I got stuck in the Bible Belt. Marty. He calls them “the pattern of sound words which you have heard from me” (2 Tim. 3. Catholic Answers executive committee and board of trustees. We believe that the oral traditions passed down through the history of the Church are necessary, but it is important to distinguish between two uses of the word tradition. But a close examination of the context suggests that it is not the Bible that Paul is referring to. A message from the President of Catholic Answers, Dear Members and Patrons of the Catholic Answers Forums, On Thursday December 31 at 5pm PT, Catholic Answers will close the Catholic Answers Forums (CAF). A careful biblical interpreter must pay attention to context. Amidst differing understandings, Catholics view revelation as a unity that is communicated in two ways: the Bible and the living tradition of the Church. The disgruntled Augustinian monk who set 16th century Europe ablaze with religious war by instigating the … : Well, look at it this way: If you can show that this dogmatic Tradition is false or harmful to the Christian, it follows by implication that the lesser traditions should go by the wayside too. Many Christians believe that the Bible, and the Bible alone, is the sole authority, or the sole rule of faith, that one needs in order to know what is and is not authentic Christian teaching and practice. In light of the next word used in verse 17 (. Isn’t this what Paul is speaking about? : Yes, that’s probably the scope of his reference. Salvation through Faith by Grace Alone. If Paul views the Old Testament as Scripture sufficient for the purpose he enumerates in verse 16, we can certainly say that the apostle would agree with applying these same words to the New Testament. Seeing this requires a careful reading of the pastoral epistles. Doesnt Timothy 3:16-17, especially the part that I have bolded show that scripture alone is not only “profitable” but “sufficient”. : Well, I don’t see Paul pointing Timothy and Titus to any verbal transmission. : You need to attend to the context more carefully. Family Life Center (2010). If you would like to continue supporting the work of Catholic Answers, you can donate here. Isn’t it an. Jesus is our Brother, by default that makes Mary our Mother and what does God tell us about our … For example, there was a change in the requirements for fasting before receiving Holy Communion. Pinterest. And God’s word gives very stern warnings to those who would add their own traditions to the gospel. Such a step is not too far of a stretch. If it was, then the equation between these “sound words” and the Bible seems justified. It was the Catholic Church that first taught the Protestants that the Bible was the Word of God.The Church produced this book, then handed it to believers, and said this is the Word of God.It is infallible and inerrant. In fact, that is what the Catholic Church would say. If there are other sources of equal weight and magnitude as the Bible, then Christian doctrine, stemming only from Bible exegesis, must be open to correction from outside the Bible. Catholic Bible 101 - The Bible Alone? Now with Google Translator for non-English speakers. Does any one know how much these “Bible alone,” … Posts about Bible – Sola Scriptura written by answers4catholics. They take a literal interpretation of the Bible and do not attend any Church service. Take Revelation 22:18, for example: “I warn every one who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: If any one adds to them, God will add to him the plagues described in this book.” And 2 Timothy 3:16–17, which I quoted above, shows that it is Scripture that builds up the man of God, not human traditions, whether with a big. But the word that Paul uses here is, . Now from some of the views expressed by these Christian men and women of good will, I generally see ONE ISSUE HERE. : No, we shouldn’t add anything to God’s revelation. After several metaphors illustrating their spiritual state and future judgment, he writes:It was of these also that Enoch in the seventh generation from Adam prophesied, saying, … Catholic way of viewing the Bible and Tradition. The bible is a great jewel, but it is NOT the church. But there is an even more telling reason why we should not pit Scripture against Tradition by appealing to this passage in Timothy. : I am afraid that I don’t see the relevance of these verses to your doctrine of Tradition. The doctrine of Sola Scriptura means that we can have full confidence in Scripture because it alone is God-breathed and is the only infallible rule of faith and practice for telling us what to believe, how to live before God, and how to think about the world around us. So when Paul speaks of Scripture in this verse, he is certainly referring to the Old Testament and not the entire Bible as we now have it. The debate over “Bible Alone” doctrines all eventually boil down to debate over who has the authority to decide, both what is called Scripture and how Scripture should be interpreted. And do these Bible alone Christians follow a certain leader or pastor or preacher? We believe that the oral traditions passed down through the history of the Church are necessary, but it is important to distinguish between two uses of the word, : It’s doctrinal or dogmatic Tradition—tradition with a big. 1 decade ago. There isn’t even the slightest suggestion that we should add something to Scripture. OBJECTOR: The exhortation applies to the content of Paul’s teaching, not to the process of verbal transmission. That is why we insist on the importance of oral Tradition. The Catholic Church regularly dispenses sanctifying grace through the sacraments. Note that this is just knowledge, and not actual realized salvation. In short, Catholics believe that the Bible is materially sufficient; it is “loose equipment without the instructions.” On this view, although the Bible is the perfect Word of God and is thereby … But before … So, I was curious, who all here uses just the DR as their main Bible for study and prayer? But look more closely at what Paul is saying. OBJECTOR: I have no problem with the verses you cite because they were very applicable in a time when the New Testament was not yet completed. Here is mine. The New Jerusalem Bible (NJB) has become the most widely used Roman Catholic Bible outside of the United States. "The Bible Alone?" 1:10; 2 Tim. Theres more but i;m sure thios answers your question. I know … It is a … Semper_Fi_1 March 8, 2012, 11:26pm #1. The New Testament Canon that Christians of all denominations enjoy was first offered by Bishop Athanasius of Alexandria in 367AD. A Quick Ten-Step Refutation of Sola Scriptura In this article Dave Armstrong, author of A Biblical Defense of Catholicism, lists ten problems with the Protestant teaching of sola scriptura. Catholic Bishops in: -Council of Rome (382 A.D.) wrote a list of the 73 books of the O.T. 1:13; 4:3; Titus 1:9, 13; 2:1, 2). Legitimate authority to which books of the new testament apocrypha as he formerly hosted the catholic bible comes from communion with a reward. In 2 Timothy 3:16, he uses the word ophelimos, which is closer to the meaning of “profitable” or “useful.” Something can be profitable without being sufficient. Was it the same as the Scripture that Paul and his hearers had available to them at that time (i.e., the Old Testament)? 1:13). Such an extension wouldn’t be much of a leap. In fact, in verse 15 he refers to the “sacred writings” with which Timothy has been acquainted from childhood. We saw that the books of the New Testament were not written until 65 years after Our Lord left the earth. As the 500th anniversary of the Protestant Reformation draws near, expect lots of people to be talking about the central pillar of the Reformation called sola fide, or justification by faith alone… Reprinted with permission from Mark Shea. Being OF God - i.e., God’s very WORD, Sacred/Holy Scriptures nonetheless form a Foundational part of what the Church IS… Nevertheless, the position of the Church is that Scripture is … Take 2 Timothy 3:16–17, for example: “All scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness, that the man of God may be complete, equipped for every good work.”, : Yes, it’s normal to cite 2 Timothy 3:16–17 in arguing that Scripture alone is sufficient for the Christian today. I tried to move to a Catholic region (Miami) but the recession is too brutal for a move. He is the author of numerous … There are some Christians out there who are “Bible alone” Christians. : Yes, and in 1 Timothy 4:13, Paul says, “Till I come, attend to the public reading of Scripture, to preaching, to teaching.” You see how Paul emphasizes the importance of Scripture in connection with that teaching. catholic answers forum –To me, in one limited respect, “bible alone” resembles some of the idols and false worship of the OT. One of Martin Luther’s invented theories from the 16 th century was that “The Bible Alone” is all that is necessary to understand God’s Holy Word – No Pope, no Magesterium, no man, no … There are other traditions that are temporary and changing even though they are binding as long as they are in force. Lots of great Catholic links too. CatholicSamurai July 8, ... Every body is able to find out the Trinity, the Deity of Christ, and many other doctrines, just reading the Bible alone. Some regular users of the Forums welcomed user fees. 1:10; 2 Tim. You will agree, I am sure, that the writings we call the New Testament were not yet collected together as Scripture when Paul wrote his second letter to Timothy. Shop for Evangelization Prayer and Holy Cards at CatholicPrayerCards.org. “The Bible Alone” theory has led to people almost worshiping the bible in book form, while at the same time ignoring a lot of the things the bible says are necessary for salvation. Scripture certainly has the power to do all the things that this verse says. Doesnt Timothy 3:16-17, especially the part that I have bolded show that scripture alone is not only “profitable” but “sufficient”. OBJECTOR: I am afraid that I don’t see the relevance of these verses to your doctrine of Tradition. distinction to say that one thing (content) applies while the other (process) does not? Inevitably, we must point to specific verses, but they must be understood in the context of the whole. The church is not defined by the bible; it is quite the other way around. Faith Alone. He is telling them to hold and teach the truths that they heard from Paul’s mouth—things that were not yet contained in Scripture, but were passed down orally. When we add to the inconclusive value of the forums, the significant cost in financial resources and personnel time to host, operate, and to what degree we can, govern them, Catholic Answers can no longer justify the effort. It. Forum Elder. Read 2 Timothy 1:13–14 carefully: “Follow the pattern of the sound words which you have heard from me, in the faith and love which are in Christ Jesus; guard the truth that has been entrusted to you by the Holy Spirit who dwells within us.” Now the phrase “sound words” or “sound teaching” occurs seven times in the pastoral epistles (cf. But a close examination of the context suggests that it is not the Bible that Paul is referring to. The bible verses in question are when Paul says that we also believe in Christ Jesus, that we may be justified by … The last phrase of verse 10 is further defined by the first phrase of verse 11: “whatever else is contrary to sound doctrine, in accordance with the glorious gospel of the blessed God with which I have been entrusted.” In other words, the content of these “sound words” is the gospel—the good news about Jesus that Christ himself had entrusted to Paul. Take 2 Timothy 3:16–17, for example: “All scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness, that the man of God may be complete, equipped for every good work.”. But we can legitimately extend Paul’s words in verses 16 and 17 to the New Testament as well. Sola scriptura is the methodological doctrine of the Reformation, for Protestantism is said to be founded on Scripture alone (as opposed to religious tradition). : I don’t see anywhere in the pastoral epistles where Paul appeals to Tradition. 1 Tim. There isn’t even the slightest suggestion that we should add something to Scripture. In fact, that is what the Catholic Church would say. OBJECTOR: Sure. The Bible Alone? A careful look shows that it is problematic to frame the Protestant-Catholic discussion of justification simply in terms of “faith alone” verses “faith and works.” This is an oversimplification that will lead Protestants to think that the Catholic … Verse 17 says, “that the man of God may be complete, equipped for every good work.” If a man is to be complete, he must have available to him all that is necessary for his work. Scripture is necessarybecause it is the written revelation of God himself. : That’s contrary to the Bible, which says that Scripture is sufficient for life and godliness. But the word that Paul uses here is profitable, not sufficient. A message from the President of Catholic Answers Dear Members and Patrons of the Catholic Answers Forums. The book of Jude contains some of the most mysterious and intriguing passages in the New Testament.One occurs when Jude warns against a group of Christians who have given … The protestants believe that God just gives them grace whenever He wills it, sacraments or not. 1:13). CATHOLIC: Yes, it’s normal to cite 2 Timothy 3:16–17 in arguing that Scripture alone is sufficient for the Christian today. CATHOLIC: Sure. This is exactly what the Catholic Church believes we Christians should do. If you would like to continue supporting the work of Catholic Answers, you can. But we can legitimately extend Paul’s words in verses 16 and 17 to the New Testament as well. In these pastoral epistles (1 and 2 Timothy and Titus), Paul actually appeals to the notion of Tradition as a necessary and valuable supplement to the Old Testament, which he referred to in 2 Timothy 3:16–17. Evangelization Holy Card. Such an extension wouldn’t be much of a leap. Catholic s, on the other hand, take Paul’s exhortation in Scripture with the utmost seriousness and accept that both the content of the gospel and the process by which it came still apply today. Opinions about the merits of the CAF range more widely than those concerning any of our other works. Catholic Doctrine Catholic Answers Catholic Religion Catholic Quotes Catholic Prayers Bible Verse Memorization Bible Scriptures Bible Quotes Religious Education. Paul is telling Timothy and Titus the same truth. My biblical concordance does not list any occurrences of the word tradition (paradosis) or the cognate verb for “to hand down” (paradidomi) in the pastoral epistles. The inspired apostle says in essence to hold to the oral Tradition of the gospel that we have received. The inspired apostle says in essence to hold to the oral Tradition of the gospel that we have received. It is a composite of holy Scripture that all … I want to show only that Paul also emphasizes the importance of his hearers holding to what was passed down verbally. 2 Thess. CATHOLIC: It’s doctrinal or dogmatic Tradition—tradition with a big T—which every Catholic is required to believe because it is part of the deposit of faith. Catholic, but the recession is too brutal for a moment, we shouldn ’ t see anywhere in Bible. Bible says you are not saved by grace, which says that Scripture is not the alone! With a Protestant woman is realistic for me here the Latin sola scriptura “! 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